Meet Bas Boutellier, senior associate in Banking & Finance with 10 years of experience at top tier firm De Brauw. After hearing the then Chairman of the KNVB (Dutch Football Association) had studied law, he went ahead and gave it a shot & he’s very glad he did. After studying in Utrecht and pursuing his LLM in Nijmegen, he joined De Brauw as a lawyer.
He started in their Banking & Finance team, moved to the Litigation & Arbitration Team for his rotation and then transitioned back to Finance & Restructuring (including a 2 year stint at the London office!) to continue specializing back in 2016.
1. If you could audition for a talent TV show, what song would you pick and why?
Ar song that comes to mind is the one in the movie Aladdin, when they’re on the flying carpet: “I want to show you the world”. It’s a childhood memory, I watched that movie with my sister a hundred thousand times. Love that song!
2. Who are you, Bas?
It’s easy to automatically dive into my job, but if you ask me who I am as a person: I’d say I’m a loving father and husband. I’m really passionate about everything I do, from my family life and relationships with friends to my work. But, that also means I have to continuously make choices, because you can’t do everything with equal drive and attention. Even though I’m very driven, I am also pragmatic in my attitude and in my work. I would not say I am necessarily a perfectionist. Instead, I think it is important to know when you should deliver a fully polished Ferrari and when a nice Renault does the trick. That - not being a perfectionist - also translates to all areas of my life, including my family life, and that can lead to a discussion or two at home when I drop a ball I should have kept up in the air…
3. What motivated you to study law and how did you get into private practice? Did you consider other careers?
For a long time, I considered studying mathematics or physics, but after attending open days I got turned off. At a certain point, my dad asked: what do you want to be when you grow up? And I’d say: Chairman of the KNVB (Dutch Football Association). So we looked up what the then Chairman had studied, and it turned out to be law. I thought it would be a good choice not just because the Chairman had studied it, but because it provides you with a solid foundation & you can use it to go into many different fields. Especially if you’re not 100% sure about what you want to do.
I completed my bachelor’s degree in Utrecht and switched to Nijmegen for my master’s degree. It was during that time that I developed a passion for law. The master was very private practice focused, with a lot of visits to top firms and internship days. Pursuing a career in private practice was somewhat automatic, I didn’t truly consider other types of careers. I’m very happy about where I’m at, but looking back now, I would have liked to have made a more conscious decision to go into private practice at the time. I’m pretty sure I would have ended up in the professional services industry and even though there’s a chance I would have ended up more in the banking or consultancy sector I think it’s very likely I would have still made the same choice, but it’s important to really make conscious decisions.
4. How would you explain what you do to an 18 year old? What does your day to day really look like, what does your calendar for the week look like?
There’s three core aspects to the work I do.
For starters, I help companies that need financing, for takeovers or other purposes. Specifically, we draft and negotiate the contracts on the basis of which the financing is provided. My day-to-day is not too dynamic in the sense that my work takes place at my computer (thankfully not just at home anymore but also at the office!), but very dynamic in the sense that I get to work on many different transactions for a broad range of clients. About half - and some days more - I’m on calls or meetings with clients, our team & financing providers. During calls with clients, we discuss the terms of the contracts, whether that works for them, what kind of exceptions and exclusions we can incorporate, and how to best get that over the line with the financing providers. The other half of the day, I’m working on the actual contracts & discussing them with colleagues and juniors. As to my week, there’s weeks where I’m on one deal full-time and there’s weeks where I’m handling 12 different transactions. There’s not really such thing as a “standard” week.
Secondly, as you become more senior, you also become responsible for business development. The commercial side of working as a lawyer: building relationships & filling the pipeline with new clients and new transactions from existing clients. Part of that is going on business trips to London to meet other law firms. Often, these are American firms, some of which you already work with, some of which you haven’t worked with yet. I was in London this week for a trip like this, and it was great. These meetings aren’t so much content driven, even though we do have good conversations about how various macroeconomic circumstances are impacting market developments. They’re more about building relationships and acquiring new business.
Thirdly, the further you get in your career, the more you’re involved with training and coaching junior associates & managing teams. I love this part too. When you start out, it’s all about the substance, learning as much as you can about the work you do and how to do it. When you become more senior, you start to think more strategically about people, their development, and how to help them reach their potential.
4. What parts or aspects of your job do you consider most rewarding & fulfilling and what do you consider less rewarding and/or tedious?
Most rewarding I’d say is working with the client and closing the deal, with all sides of the table being happy. A very close second is seeing junior associates who join the team knowing close to nothing about the financing practice being coached by team members and growing and developing themselves over the course of 1-3 years to the point where they can handle certain matters independently. Witnessing - and contributing to that growth - is fulfilling.
Less rewarding - and in some ways tedious - is the documentary and administrative nature of parts of our work, from project management “to do lists” to drafting resolutions. Another less rewarding part of our job - and I’m not sure many of our clients realize that this feels this way for us - is billing. At the end of a transaction, everyone involved is usually super happy to have gotten it done. And after that happy moment, we have to bill & invoice which - simply put - is no fun for anyone involved.
5. You spent a few years in London for De Brauw, how was that? What was the office like, what kind of work did you focus on? What did you take from your years in London - from a career & life perspective?
The good thing about working at the London office of De Brauw is that you get the opportunity to spend time abroad in a small office setting (~5-7 people) while still having the luxury of doing the interesting work that larger law firms typically take on. Especially in the London office, we have close relationships with the UK and US firms and we often assist them with the Dutch aspects of their transactions. This type of matters is often somewhat smaller, meaning that I was able to run and manage them more and more independently & gave me the feeling of running my “own” practice more.
In addition, I learned how to go networking. I often went to all kinds of events and dinners, sometimes with others but also alone. Networking and business development feels awkward in the beginning, but you get used to it after a while.
Finally, it was a great opportunity to live and work in London for a while. Me and my wife really enjoyed living there and I feel at home every time I return.
6. If you could only pick one, what project or case taught you the most and in what way? You’ve done countless over the years, but which one stands out to you most?
There’s one specific project which stands out: it took place back in 2018 and for me confirmed that I was in the right place, doing what I should be doing. On the right path. It was the project financing for the Afsluitdijk, one of the Netherlands’ most important (if not the most important) barrier dams which is also a highway. The project had been tendered to a consortium of builders and you cannot even begin to imagine the number of contracts underlying the project for the build & the financing. It was key to make sure that the provisions in the building & financing agreements were 100% aligned and I worked on the project mostly with a team of junior associates, supervised by one partner. It was really complex on a contractual level and the dynamics of having to negotiate with a room full of bankers was challenging and fun. That project was an eye opener, it made me realize why I do what I do.
7. What skills that you have developed in your career to date are you most grateful for? Which skills do you use the most outside of work?
As a native Dutch speaker, I think I’m most grateful for how well I’ve learned to speak English & how relaxed I feel speaking it, especially when I compare it to some people in my surroundings. Being able to speak English properly is so important in business & professional services. The skill I use most outside of my work is the ability to manage & keep many balls up in the air at the same time without freaking out. You need to be able to assess priority, what needs to be done by you, what can be done by others, you need to delegate and also decide to let certain things go.
8. As you have become more experienced over the years, which skills did you find were most important for you to continue fine tuning? And anything you learned when you were a junior that you have to unlearn now?
I’ve learned that interpersonal skills are even more important than I thought, and they become more important as you become more senior. As you progress, more and more time is spent really talking to people and understanding the business, and less of my time is spent on all the technical details. The past few years have also made me realise how much of a “trust” business law is, especially if you want to keep your clients. Developing personal relationships & building that trust is something you need to continuously work on.
As to unlearning: there’s not really much that I can think of. One exception: when I was younger, people always encouraged me to speak up during client meetings, and now I have to “unlearn” automatically speaking up to create room and empower junior associates to do so, so they can develop & hone their skills the same way I was able to.
9. Imagine you never ended up studying law. What would be your dream job?
A board position in sport, for example at the KNVB (Dutch Football Association) or Ajax. Wanting to become Chairman of the KNVB was the main reason for deciding to study law and hasn’t changed. I also truly admire mathematicians and physicists behind discoveries of things like black holes and stars, so I think that’d be incredible too.
10. What’s the best piece of career advice you’ve ever been given?
When people think about lawyers at firms like De Brauw, many automatically assume we’re all crazy perfectionists figuring things out to 16 decimal places. I’m not always like that, and for a long time, I was not sure whether my approach to law was too “light” to continue on this path. Not too long ago, someone who used to be a partner at De Brauw (and a true perfectionist and 16 decimal places type) told me that in a law firm you need lots of different types of people. You need the 16 decimal places “types”, but you also need the ones that are quick on their feet and able to give short & pragmatic advice, and you need everything in between. Him saying that helped me become more confident and made me realize that my way is also a good way, it’s just a different way of practicing law. It’s the way that suits me best. And that’s not just OK - it’s good!
*Disclaimer: The views expressed in this article are those of the interviewee alone and not their employer.
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