Meet Quirijn van Veen, who after studying in the US on a tennis scholarship for a year and then going on to study law in Amsterdam worked at top firm Freshfields Bruckhaus Deringer for close to 4 years. On the side, he also founded Je Veux with friends, a business in the entertainment industry, organising many large and smaller scale events with live music. After planning things his whole life, however, he decided to leave his job in BigLaw and dove head first into start-up life where he was a jack of all trades for a couple of months before joining INGEN HOUSZ, a market leading law firm in the VC & scale-up ecosystem. And yes, if you’re wondering: being a specialised VC lawyer is very different to being an M&A lawyer at a big firm.
1. What if you could wake up tomorrow with any superpower? Which one would you choose?
I would probably choose to make everyone positive, create a positive mindset for everyone. Let people, with all these crises surrounding us, still see the world through a positive lens.
2. Tell us how your brutally honest best friend would introduce you?
I’d say they’d he’d describe me as very loyal, very competitive, very honest & very focused. And two sided in the sense that I can be very serious on the one hand but also very laid back on the other. And he’ll probably also say I got a small “klap van de molen” (have a bit of a screw loose! ;) ).
3. What made you decide to study law? And after graduation, go into private practice?
Again, brutally honest: I got a tennis scholarship to study in New York for a year. I got back quite late in the summer of 2007. My parents had studied law, I knew a lot of other people who had and was thinking of doing a semester and then going back to the States. I was in doubt between economics and law, and decided to give law a try because I figured it would keep my options open and give me a good basis. In the end, I stayed. I didn’t really like the bachelors of law, it was very general and you’re just regurgitating things from books. It wasn’t intellectually stimulating nor did it encourage creative thinking in my opinion - I think that applies to a lot of Dutch bachelors degrees. Then, I took a gap year and worked full-time in a student board position before I pursued a masters degree. That, I enjoyed much more.
As to going into private practice: I’ve always been quite commercial and didn’t see myself litigating or getting into the nitty gritty only legal stuff, so decided to go into dealmaking / M&A because it most resembles the commercial world. Freshfields has a reputation for being very commercial, pragmatic and international, and I had a real connection with the people that worked there, and was lucky to get in
4. Did you think about other potential career paths before joining private practice?
During my undergraduate degree, I did a board year where I was local committee president for AIESEC Amsterdam. During that year, I got in touch with lots of different companies, from consultancies to the big corporates and everything in between. I considered doing a management traineeship and starting my own company and was actually hesitant about going into private practice at first, but like I said, I also figured it gives you a very good basis and allows you to develop key skills. And so I went for that.
5. What does your day to day really look like and how is it different from working at a big firm?
The work I do now is actually very different from the work I did at a big firm in a number of ways, but the main differences lie in the contact with founders and the type of advisor I am to my clients.
When you’re at a big firm, the chances that you’ll speak directly to founders are relatively small. Sometimes the partners do, obviously, but mostly you’ll be speaking to money managers, private equity managers or M&A / corporate development teams. I work with entrepreneurs and venture capital investors directly and most of my day, I’m on the phone, doing video calls and Whatsapp with them. It can be a bit draining to be on the phone literally the whole day because the paperwork has to be done at night! Nevertheless, working directly with founders - that are so emotionally attached to the company - creates a completely different dynamic in the work that I do and I love it.
As to the type of work, deals running into the hundreds of millions or billions may sound fancy, but - from an M&A perspective - as a lawyer you’re usually pretty focused on the execution & getting the paperwork done. In such deals, there’s also lots of bankers and consultants involved & they typically focus on the more commercial aspects. I wasn’t a senior at a big firm, so I can’t fully compare, but if you work at a big firm, the work you do is typically the more traditional work of a lawyer. Then, on the other hand, a lot of the work I do isn’t really legal. We try to really guide founders, sometimes emotionally, but also financially, to get the best deal out there. It’s that role that I truly enjoy. I love the commercial and financial aspects of it. Founders can, understandably, get emotional during these times, their company is such a large part of their life, it’s what they created. Sometimes you need to convince them, and sometimes you need to tell them it’s alright and they should give push back. Founders can be stubborn, so you need to balance things. Our clients really consider us their sparring partner for the key events of a start-up such as fundraisings and exits., And then there’s the legal stuff as well! So yes, the work is really very different.
Often, the more senior you become, the more involved you also become in business & practice development. What’s that like for you?
For new business: over the last couple of years INGEN HOUSZ has built a stellar reputation in VC deals & growth equity. We’re the market leaders and the community is very small. We get about 90-95% of our deals through references, often via Whatsapp or LinkedIn, where founders we’ve helped reach out and tell them about friends or people in their network looking for lawyers. Typically, we don’t do pitches, we do lunches or other informal meetings. Founders are very informal, and so are VC investors. So we also have an informal way of doing business development.
As to growth as a firm: we are looking to scale more. We now have a team of 9 experienced lawyers. We’re super dedicated, and work very hard . As a SaaS scale-up, you can truly scale internationally with a limited number of people. As a law firm, everything depends on the quality of your people. If we hire mediocre people, it doesn’t make any sense. So we’re really picky. Most firms are trying to scale at all costs, but if you’re honest, the quality is mediocre and in the long-run it won’t get you where you want to be. Personally, I think firms either need to be large, full-service firms that also benefit from network effects, or need to be small and specialised. There are many Dutch firms with between 20 - 60 lawyers who aren’t niche enough for that true focus and to carve out that market leading position for themselves in a specific field, but also not big enough to enjoy those network effects. And to speak in scale-up terms, those firms are at risk of the valley of death.
6. What makes your job great and what makes it a little less great?
The “great” is definitely so much direct contact with inspiring founders and investors. We have drinks with investors, founders and we also host all sorts of scale-up events. And the fact that we as a firm are really part of the scale-up ecosystem, but not just as lawyers. For me, that makes a big difference, as I consider myself more than just a lawyer.
The downside of working at a smaller firm is that there’s a lot of stuff to deal with and less support. In a big firm, everything is set up for you to focus on your billable hours - especially the first few years. You have support for everything from IT to travel arrangements. In a small firm, if you want new software, you need to arrange it yourself. You need to arrange your own stuff. We’re definitely professionalising, but we’re also nimble. We want to keep that entrepreneurial mindset. Another aspect to take into account is that founders often mistakenly assume that their deal is the only deal I’m working on. The fact that for founders, these deals are so personal, means I can also get Whatsapp messages at midnight and in that respect, it can be hard to set boundaries.
As to the number of deals: it’s different to doing M&A at a big firm. In VC, you can do many more deals at the same time. Sometimes there’s a lot of pressure in a VC deal if money is running out, but it can also easily take a couple of weeks before an investor gets back to you. Very different to the bigger deals handled by big firms! At any given time, the pipeline of deals I’m involved in ranges anywhere from 15 to 25 deals. Some require daily work and in others I don’t hear anything for 2 weeks. The typical timeline for a deal is a couple of months.
7. If you could only list one, what project was most defining for you, taught you the most or do you look back on most fondly and why?
The first one that comes to mind is a deal last year for Castor, which is a modern clinical trials platform which facilitates the sharing of medical data in an easy and safe way. I’m very fond of the guys that founded it, they are incredibly intelligent & focused on their mission. It was a 45M Series B. It was a very high pressure deal, with lots of parties involved, and I was flying solo. It was a super fulfilling deal to work on from both an intellectual perspective as well as a process management perspective. Very proud of that one! Another one is Sentinels, a VC backed company sold to Fenergo. I mainly worked with Joost van Houten, the founder and one of the most talented people I’ve ever met. He handled a large part of the deal himself, from the financials to getting the deal done. And of course Parfumado!
Looking back on the deals I’ve worked on and enjoyed most, it’s not necessarily the money involved, but all about the impact you can make.
8. What do you consider the top 5 (transferable) skills you developed as a practicing corporate lawyer?
Number 1, which is in my view one of the most important skills to have in life, is you learn how to work. A strong work ethic. Having a strong work ethic gives you an advantage everywhere. Most people that work at big firms have the insecure overachiever syndrome. Often, if you work harder (not saying more hours is better, but it also relates to grit & effort), it gives you a huge advantage. You learn that working for a big firm.
Secondly, analytical rigour. A part of that is in you, and a part of that is taught and further developed. It also relates somewhat to being precise. With precise, I don’t mean spelling mistakes, but I’m talking about truly understanding what the deal is about. You know, what it boils down to. Being able to distinguish between what is important and what isn’t important. In my career, I’ve seen people focusing on everything, but as a lawyer you really need to learn what’s important and what just isn’t.
Thirdly, commercial thinking. Freshfields is known to be very commercial, and they relly teach you financials too. I think too few lawyers in the Netherlands are truly financially savvy - we all think we are but in the end many can get very lost in Excels. It gives a huge advantage when you truly know your way around deal numbers.
And lastly, project management. If you’ve worked in M&A, you know how to deal with multiple parties. And it’s not only about stakeholder management, but also just getting something across the finish line.
9. What triggered the move from BigLaw (Freshfields) to a niche firm like INGEN HOUSZ?
There was no specific moment in particular that triggered my move from BigLaw to a niche firm but fairly early on, I already felt that in the long-run, working at a big firm wouldn’t make me happy. I still remember a conversation I had with a partner at a certain point. They saw it and I saw it. I’m too hands on, and maybe too commercial to enjoy the big firm practice in the long run, it wouldn’t make me happy. I already felt that about a year and a half into the job and actually considered quitting during my post-graduate training (advocaat-stage) to start my own company but decided at the time to just finish it.
Freshfields was a great firm & I loved the people, but I had also always planned things in my life from doing a specific tennis summer programme to getting an 8 for an exam. After a couple of years, I decided it wasn’t the place where I wanted to stay for the rest of my life. It felt scary to leavemy job, but also something I had to do. In law, you’re trained to become risk averse. So I love seeing lawyers make bold decisions, like leaving the firm without a plan B. For me, it was a huge step.
About 4 years after joining, I quit and worked for a start-up for a couple of months in legal, financial, HR, making coffee. It was all very hands-on and taught me a lot. One of the things that you don’t realise when you’re at a big firm is that working there makes you lazy. They make you work hard, sure, but lazy in the sense that you get your work handed to you, you have your PA, your tech support. It’s your job to make your billable hours. When you join a start-up, or a niche firm like IINGEN HOUSZ, you have to be super proactive as well and have an entrepreneurial mindset, something that most lawyers lack.
After working at the start-up for a couple of months (and not making much money), a friend told me I should talk to Matthijs Ingen Housz. I decided to give it a try for a few months. And then, it turned out I really liked it. The legal, the financial, the entrepreneurs: it all came together and “triggered” me to stay.
I think the difficult thing with lawyers is that, even though there are firms trying to change this, the career path is still very traditional and linear. And you don’t want to be that 45+ year old surrounded by partners and 25 year olds. As a lawyer, after 4-5 years, you should ask yourself whether you want to continue on that path and if not, get out of there as soon as possible. It really is a golden cage. But in the current market, you can go to another law firm, you can go in-house too. There’s so many opportunities, even in non-legal commercial roles. If I were an entrepreneur, I would definitely hire a lawyer for a sales role. That is, if they’re commercially savvy. They’ll know how to work hard, have some grit and also - typically - be quite smart. Ten or twenty years ago, the options were partnership or in-house. Now, there’s so many more opportunities out there.
10. What will the next 5 years look like for you, in an ideal scenario?
I’d like to continue growing INGEN HOUSZ in a steady way without losing focus on quality. I’d like to broaden the scope of our services (and yes, I know there are certain bar regulations), but to truly become that matchmaker in the ecosystem. And I’d like to (continue to) be surrounded by a great team of people and create a solid basis for them. We actually discussed last year that if you come work for us, we won’t promise you’ll become a partner but we do promise that we’ll create space for you and that in the years you’re with us you’ll learn so much and prepare you to even work for a VC investor or scale-up. We want to train people to understand the VC world, not just train them as lawyers. A bit like what McKinsey does I guess - and I’m not saying we come close - but if you ask many people at McKinsey will say they probably won’t be working there in 5 years, but they’ll be in the McKinsey ecosystem. I think that’s a great model.
11. If you were prohibited from doing what you currently do, what would you be doing for a living instead?
I’ve always been fascinated by wildlife preservation. I hope maybe to at one point move to Africa and help out or set up my own wildlife sanctuary. It’s definitely a lot less commercial and less focused on money. And another option is politics. Not saying right now, but I think it’s easy to hide in the commercial world, to hide from real social engagement.
So I also saw something called Je Veux on your LinkedIn. What’s that?
Je Veux is a hobby that got out of hand. We started it almost 10 years ago and it actually became quite a big success. We organised lots of parties and also hosted private events for companies. It wasn’t about the money but about passion & live music. I recommend all young lawyers get involved with stuff completely outside of legal practice. It’s so refreshing - and inspirational - to work with people other than consultants, bankers and lawyers. As to Je Veux, as we grew older, started having kids & running out of time, things have changed for Je Veux too. We had our last event just before COVID, which was great because we sold out super quickly. But who knows what the future holds!
12. What is the worst (career or life) advice you’ve ever received and why?
Not sure who gave it but the Dutch saying of “do what you like”. I hate that. I like playing football, but I won’t make any money with it. You need to take steps, build & create something for yourself.
Good advice that really resonates with me - and I just read an article on this - is don’t make a career path but focus on creating a career portfolio. Think about how you build something that makes you, as a person, stronger. Do things that are close to the person you want to be(come), not just who you are.
And to add to that, and this is something I definitely see with myself too - is that if you’re working somewhere or doing something it’s hard to see your personal growth. If you leave somewhere, or look back at your own work and experience, only then will you see how much you’ve grown. It’s hard to see that growth in the moment & so it’s important to look back. And young people often think they need to make an impact within a year, and yes, you should definitely give your full 200%, but also don’t put too much pressure on yourself. Don’t rush yourself too much.
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