Meet Simone Kooij, who worked as a corporate M&A and IP lawyer for almost 8 years before she was asked to set up central staffing for De Brauw Blackstone Westbroek - the first firm in the Netherlands to have a central team that divides the work for lawyers. Thereafter, she took on roles as Head of People Development & Change and (interim) Head of People before being promoted to Chief HR Officer in October 2020. As Chief, she and her Co-Chief are responsible for "all people things" at De Brauw.
1. Let’s kick things off. What’s your favourite ride at a theme park?
The roller coaster is called the "Python" and it’s at the Efteling (theme park with a fairy tale forest and rides). Haven’t been in ages, and to be honest I’m not really a theme park person, but I have really great memories about that theme park as a little girl, especially with the famous fairy tale forest and that roller coaster!
2. Tell us how your brutally honest best friend would introduce you?
I think she’d describe me as: upbeat, quick thinker, involved, curious, honest and trustworthy, enthusiastic, energetic & with a good sense of humour, witty. And she’d say some people may not see at first glance how effective I actually am.
3. What do you do for work? What do people need to know about what your work and responsibilities look like? And any myths you’d like to debunk?
Together with my Co-Chief, I’m responsible for everything related to our people. On a strategic level, we work on major topics like talent development & retention - I can’t emphasize the importance of these topics enough for a people business like ours. This not only relates to remuneration. It's also about leadership and of course it is about culture, and culture covers everything from the kind of employer and company we are and want to be & how we can take it to the next level. Part of our work is also making sure that we are in touch with all the stakeholders, partners and employees, to make sure our HR vision is closely aligned with the core business.
On a more operational level, we manage a team of 30 people and have to make sure all HR processes run smoothly including salary payments, HR advice, Learning and things like that. We handle the implementation of things like a new performance review tool and our annual employment survey including the follow-up. Our team is responsible for attracting legal top talents and making sure vacancies get filled. We’re also in the lead of the promotion cycle process of our associates. We provide support with the "up or out" process and help facilitate the bi-yearly partner and counsel appraisals.
All in all, it’s a great mix of long- and short term projects and strategy and operations. I really enjoy the work I do, but I think many people don’t realise how much we actually have to deal with. We’re fixers, we fix things that aren’t going the way they should, on an organisational level and on an individual level. You need to enjoy solving problems. To do the job well and enjoy it, in my opinion you also need to be a bit of a naive optimist. The thing is, you can keep on improving things, but you’re never going to be where you want to be. Problems are always going to pop up, and you can and should always improve more.
As to myths & misconceptions: I guess people sometimes think HR is just about talking and networking or sometimes seen as "fluff". I can imagine why people would think that, but nowadays it’s so much more than that. HR - like other fields of business - is increasingly more data and results-driven. Just a few examples: we run analyses on sick leave, in- and outflow of talent, the composition of the talent pool in general and how they’re doing, promotions, how long people stay with us on average & exit interviews (and the list goes on). We use the very measurable insights from these analyses to continuously do better.
4. What parts or aspects of your job do you consider most rewarding & fulfilling and what do you consider less rewarding, tedious or costs energy?
Quite a few actually. It’s all about what drives you as a person. For me, it’s all about talent development and developing the organisation. The impact you can have on an individual person by being a sparring partner and helping them in their development. Same goes for company wide initiatives, where at a certain point - after putting in a lot of work - you find the company has taken one (or a few) steps forward: improved and gotten better. In September last year we conducted our employment survey and recently we organized a webinar about the follow-up of that survey which was led by the management board. I’m happy we communicated the insights from the employment survey, have discussed it with all interest groups and are already setting things in motion to address points of improvement so quickly. As to culture, we all know that’s difficult to change and it takes a lot of time. When I take a step back, look around and see that we’ve been able to make a small change in culture, it’s a big win.
Less fulfilling to me are the moments where I’m in the operation too deeply. For example when an individual’s meal disbursement ends up on my desk because it’s been escalated up the chain. That’s a “Really? I should not have to deal with this.” moment. Thankfully, we have a great team that makes sure this happens seldom. Another aspect that you need to learn to work your way around is politics, which is something you have to deal with in pretty much every business, but which can be even more complex when there’s 50+ partner-shareholders.
5. What triggered you to make the career moves you’ve made?
When I joined the firm, I started as an associate in the M&A team and then I transferred to IP where I was also promoted to senior associate. I loved solving legal puzzles and the fact that with each new matter, you would get to know another business (and client) inside out. Your learning curve is so steep. At a certain point, I started to feel like the work in IP was too specialized and I decided to transition back to M&A which is considered - and in my experience also is - more ‘broad’. I am happy I made that switch, but it also made me realise that it just was not enough anymore. After almost 8 years I had to admit: I am not a 100% specialist and I love to learn new things. It was time to move on and to start thinking about what I wanted to do next.
6. How did you make the move to your current job? For others interested in making a similar change, what would be the #1 advice you would give them?
After realising I no longer wanted to be lawyer, at least not at my firm, I took unpaid leave to start thinking about what was next. During my leave, the firm’s head of HR reached out to me and told me the board wanted to set up central staffing, and asked me whether I wanted to take on that challenge. We had so much fun. We got carte blanche and reported directly to the practice heads, it was really a start-up within the firm.
As to advice, I’d say:
Seize opportunities! If you can take on a different role at a company you’re already working at, give it a shot. They know you - and you know the company. It’ll be harder to get your foot in the door at a company that doesn’t know you, and even more difficult when you’re applying for a role you have little to no prior experience in. I also believe companies can really benefit from giving their team members a chance to take on another role - companies have invested in you and your knowledge about the company is a true asset also when you switch roles.
Find out what you are really good at, what comes natural. Every person has a unique set of skills and characteristics. The things that you are truly great at hardly cost any energy because they come natural to you. I personally don’t believe in dream jobs or just finding your passion, I believe you should be looking for, or create, the job that fits your strengths best. It can be pretty difficult to find out where your talents lie when you are managing a challenging job at the same time. So take some time off, take a step back, do a test if needed and make a plan.
7. What were the most valuable things that you learned working as a corporate - in your case M&A and IP - lawyer that you still use in your work today?
Over the years I learned so much, but a few things that immediately come to mind are:
Fact finding: before you form your judgment, gather all the information, figure out what the facts are and analyse those facts. Number one lesson as a lawyer, find the facts.
Communication & presentation: you become skilled in presenting in writing your “key” message in a convincing way: a way that your reader can understand it. It’s one thing to be right on substance, but getting someone else to understand what exactly you’re saying is something else altogether.
Asking questions (doorvragen): lawyers always try to figure out the ins and outs of a situation - after all, the devil is in the details. Try to figure out exactly how something works. Always be curious. Teamwork is the best. We go fast alone but further together. And it is much more fun!
8. What habits or “skills”, if anything, did you have to unlearn? What “new” or slightly underdeveloped skills did you have to develop rapidly for your new job?
It can be a bit of a “lawyerly” habit to think you know best. That can then be reflected in a biased attitude towards other advisers, which is unjustified and can come across short-sighted & stubborn. I think I had this myself too, but at the time I didn’t realize. Lawyers are smart, for sure, but other experts bring other expertise and something entirely different and valuable to the table. It’s a shame when someone closes their self off from truly hearing what others have to say and learning from other experts.
Feedback that I - regrettably! - still sometimes get from my team is that I am very focused on substance, all the time. As a corporate lawyer, you are trained to work and manage projects efficiently, and this “transaction based approach” is reflected in how you learn to work with other people. Recently I had the opportunity to follow a leadership training focused on leading with your heart. It taught me to open up more and trust my gut more. Studies have shown you have three brains: the brain, the gut and the heart. I’m reaping the benefits from what I’ve learned and I do it more and more.
9. If you were prohibited from doing what you currently do, what would you be doing for a living instead?
I really love what I do now. Can I say that I’d set out on my own and provide consultancy services on culture & leadership, or is that cheating? If I can’t do anything HR related: voice actor for a kids cartoon or mounted police. Both very different, I know.
10. What do you consider some of the best pieces of advice you’ve ever been given that you’d like to share? Can be life or work related.
Be humble and grateful for what you have. We are incredibly privileged. If I’m having a stressful day and I catch myself wondering “what am I doing?”, I think about how lucky I truly am to lead the life I’m leading. It’s a gift. Put things in perspective, your problems at work may seem huge in the moment but are, in the bigger scheme of things, peanuts.
*Disclaimer: The views expressed in this article are those of the interviewee alone and not their employer.
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