Meet Hetty de Rooij, who worked as an arbitration lawyer at various top tier law firms for 11 years before becoming Executive Officer at the Court of Arbitration for Art in 2019. In 2020, she then became a Lecturer at the University of Leiden, where she is the Academic Coordinator of the Advanced LL.M. in International Civil and Commercial Law and is also working on her PhD in arbitration law.
1. Imagine you got an hour to discuss anything you’d like with anyone who has ever lived. Who would you talk to and what would you want to talk about?
I’d talk to Ruth Bader Ginsburg. She’s written books and has had books written about her which I’ve read, but I’d love to hear her personal story. How she managed to do it all: how she worked her way up, inspiring so many people along the way and leaving the enormous legacy that she has, combining an incredible career with family life. She’s the definition of a legend, and at the same time - apparently - she was also very approachable. I’d love to hear from her how she managed to do it all and how it all felt.
2. In a nutshell, who is Hetty de Rooij?
I am very curious and like to meet new people. One of the best things about my current job is that I get to work with lots of international students and hear about their perspectives. These can be legal, political or personal. It makes you realize how many similarities there are. It relates back to the other ice breaker question you asked, the one about which super power I’d give to everyone in the world: I’d wish for everyone to get the opportunity to work and live in a very “mixed” environment for a while, because it allows you to learn that the differences between people aren’t so big whilst at the same time truly enriching your life with so many different views and perspective.
Who am I? Curious, content-driven and someone who loves working with interesting people. I enjoy both the social side of meeting and working with people, but also love doing some quiet reading, thinking and writing. The balance works for me: combining research with more outgoing activities such as teaching and mentoring.
3. What does a typical week look like? What do you spend your time working on and doing, and with whom? What do people need to know about what your work and responsibilities look like? Any myths you’d like to debunk?
Let’s start with the myth that people working at university have lots of time to do research, read and write. The workload when working at university is high. Every year, more than 1,000 students start studying law in Leiden. It’s a challenging job: one minute you’re preparing a lecture, the next you’re trying to reschedule an exam because of a major storm and you need to jump through one hundred hoops and and get lots of approvals. The idea that you’re sitting in your study all day - ha! Dream on. Teaching and preparing courses and assignments keeps you busy, but I also like the freedom and creativity that comes with it. Having to grade 1,000 exams (which fortunately I don’t have to do in the advanced master because our group is smaller) - that’s top sport!
As to a typical week, this one is not it but I’ll happily walk you through it. We’re hosting a course presentation for future students, so I spent time preparing it and tomorrow we’re headed to the studio to do a dry run. On Thursday, the actual career event will take place - again at the studio. We do everything online now, which makes it a lot more accessible to students from all over the world. Later this week, I’m meeting up with another PhD student and I have a meeting scheduled with my boss, a professor from Oxford, to discuss what activities and work we’ll be doing this year, as well as plan for the course in International Contract Law that I co-teach next year. Lastly, I need to spend some time preparing assignments and cases for another course on which I teach - Legal Profession & Ethics.
Who do you work with when preparing courses?
Courses are taught by a number of lecturers, and everyone typically takes on a smaller part. We sit together to discuss what went well last time and what can be improved next year. We also talk about the topics we would like to cover and who will take on what part of the course. It is a really collaborative environment and I enjoy being able to use my background and experience to add to the courses. For example, in Legal Profession & Ethics I will give my litigator’s perspective on truth and extics.
That’s a busy week! Do you have time to work on your PhD?
Dividing my time and allocating enough time to work on my PhD can sometimes be a challenge, including this week! I’m quite results-oriented so when there’s things I can deal with quickly and immediately see results and make an impact or take on things that give a bit of an adrenaline rush like the career webinar, it can be difficult to make time for my PhD which is a much more long-term project. But I have a deadline coming up and need to hand in a chapter, so this week I’m going to make a plan for the chapter and starting next week I’ll be busy writing it.
4. What parts or aspects of your job are most rewarding & fulfilling and what do you consider the least rewarding?
The interaction with our students is the most rewarding and fulfilling aspect for me - giving them guidance, sharing my experience with them, answering their questions and hearing all about their perspectives. Similarly, the interaction with my colleagues is something I find very rewarding. The work culture is good: everyone is willing to help one another, and everyone is very motivated and content-driven. It’s a really nice environment to work in.
What I find less rewarding is the pressure in the education sector in general after years of budget cuts, which means that people are really having to go above and beyond to get the work done. Budget cuts and pressure also means lecturers cannot always provide the quality and depth that they’d like to. As for myself, I’ve heard more than once that I need to tone down my perfectionism a bit. I’m always thinking about how to improve things, optimize processes, and anticipate better. The Advanced LLM is an advanced programme, which means there’s also room for that because we really compete with similar types of programmes.
4. What motivated you to make your career change?
The main reason was substance: I just really wanted to do a PhD. It’s been on my bucket list for a long time, and this felt like the right time in my life to do it. Having my own project creates peace and space; I’m in control and able to determine my own schedule. There’s a lot of synergies with working at the university, whilst I’m working on my own research I work with others doing research. The Advanced LLM is also a perfect match with the work I did as a practicing lawyer for 11 years, so I can really leverage and pass on that experience to the students. When the opportunity came up, I didn’t hesitate!
5. How were you able to make the transition out of private practice and start working on your PhD? For others looking to make a similar change, what would be the #1 advice you would give them?
Approach people who you think are interesting based on content. I actually approached my current PhD supervisor at a conference. I had an idea about what I wanted to do, sent her an email with my CV and then had coffee with her. We discussed my proposal, and we dove into what I wanted to do and why. My #1 advice for people who are considering doing a PhD is: make sure you know what you want to research and why. Do not do it for the quality stamp of a PhD. Once you've figured out the what and why, look for people who can guide you, talk to them and convince them that you’re serious about the project and that it has a chance of success. Supervisors are approached by many candidates, so you need to realize that you need to have a serious idea as to what you want to do and why.
As is the case with many things in the world, at the university, it’s also about who you know. I’m an external PhD candidate and I approached my supervisor, but once in a while a vacancy does get published for PhD positions for which you can apply. Even in such cases, however, you need to have an idea what you’re going to write about. Something to keep in mind if you’re going to make the transition out of private practice is that you will likely take a serious pay cut.
What were your reasons for pursuing the PhD?
There were two main reasons. The first - obviously - being that I really wanted to deep dive into arbitration law. In practice, I was always super focused on very specific cases, but I wanted to dive into a topic and really look at all sides - not just the sides beneficial for the client and advocate for the client. The writing of a book also seemed like a challenge, one I really wanted to take on. Something personal that also played a role, and that is that my mother started a PhD when she had just had me but wasn’t able to finish it because she got sick.
6. Being a lecturer and working on a PhD is obviously very different to working as a lawyer in private practice, but how does your experience as a corporate lawyer in private practice contribute to your current role?
I draw from my experience on a daily basis! I learned so much over the years from all the things I did and all the complex legal issues I researched for my cases. My prior experience is always a great source of inspiration for my teaching and assignments, and I love being able to pass that on.
7. What habits or “skills”, if anything, did you have to unlearn? What “new” or slightly underdeveloped skills did you have to develop rapidly for your new job?
Academic writing and “litigation” writing are two completely different things. It’s not advocating for your client, it’s about sharing different perspectives and truly forming your own opinion. You need to develop your own voice and put yourself “out there”. Something else is that I have also had to tone down my perfectionism a bit; if you’re coordinating an Advanced LLM obviously lots of things can go wrong and if you take it too seriously, that’s not particularly helpful for your own state of mind. At the same time, I do believe in the added value of doing things very well and professionally. I just need to strike a balance and be kinder to myself.
8. What - if anything - do you miss from your time working as a corporate lawyer in private practice, and what are you most happy about to have left behind?
Just today, I was talking to someone and said that what I miss most is working with the client and figuring out what went wrong in a particular project, translating that to legal arguments, and learning an incredible amount about how an industry, a business or a for factory works. Cases give you insight into another world. I don’t miss the focus on billables, but then again billables actually also provide insight and visibility into what you spend your time on, which in my current job can sometimes be more difficult.
9. Knowing what you know now, what advice would you give your 10 year younger self?
Just be yourself. It’s the best advice I’ve ever gotten, it’s the most successful strategy. You’re strongest when you’re truly you. Trying to conform, or trying to become who you think others expect you to be, costs so much energy. That energy is much better invested in creating and building! As a lawyer, you obviously have a job to do and a role to fulfill, but I also believe most clients appreciate it when you’re honest, particularly about not knowing or not having the answers - as well as when you are truly “you”.
*Disclaimer: The views expressed in this article are those of the interviewee alone and not their employer.
Comentarios